Dear Marion, You asked for an explanation of my statement: "Paideia is the specifically Greek interpretation of all those pedagogical efforts with which an intellectual and spiritual culture of a people is propagated from generation to generation. Paideia has nothing to do with punishment or violence." The Wikipedia article about Paideia to which I sent you the link should clarify the issue. If it doesn't, ask more questions. It's my impression that the Wikipedia article largely reflects Jaeger's thesis. Whether Jaeger introduced a new interpretation or merely restated prevalent ideas with impressive scholarly thoroughness, I don't know. Obviously Jaeger's account of Paideia is inconsistent with the Paideia mentioned the Septuagint version of Isaiah. Unfortunately I'm ignorant of Hebrew, and can't have an opinion as to whether the Septuagint is an adequate translation of the original. But here is an English translation of the Masoretic text. Isaiah Chapter 53 1 'Who would have believed our report? And to whom hath the arm of the LORD been revealed? 2 For he shot up right forth as a sapling, and as a root out of a dry ground; he had no form nor comeliness, that we should look upon him, nor beauty that we should delight in him. 3 He was despised, and forsaken of men, a man of pains, and acquainted with disease, and as one from whom men hide their face: he was despised, and we esteemed him not. 4 Surely our diseases he did bear, and our pains he carried; whereas we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. 5 But he was wounded because of our transgressions, he was crushed because of our iniquities: the chastisement of our welfare was upon him, and with his stripes we were healed. 6 All we like sheep did go astray, we turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath made to light on him the iniquity of us all. I believe these verses speak for themselves. The Christian interpretation that Jesus was "the man of sorrows" whose fate Isaiah prophesies is misleading and obscures the meaning of the text, as I understand it. Isaiah is describing a social and psychological phenomenon: Societies must control the actions of their members. They do so by enacting laws. Compliance with the laws is virtue, violation of the laws is evil. Because humans are spontaneous creatures, total compliance with the laws is ultimately impossible. It is unavoidable that laws should be broken, and that lawful conduct then becomes to an extent greater or less, an illusion. To maintain the illusion of legality, societies require scapegoats on which to cast their fear and their guilt. The criminal is punished to set an example for others. He or she is punished because each member of the jury understands subconsciously that he or she might have committed the same wrong. Indeed, it is impossible for one person to "understand" a crime unless he felt himself capable of committing the crime himself. That is why "punishment" is a moral incongruity. It is in recognition of this spritual impossibility that Isaiah, in subsequent verses of this chapter, relates how the LORD rehabilitates the stricken one on whom was laid "the iniquity of us all." That's what Albert was trying to explain to Doehring in Chapter Seven of Die Andere. At the same time in describing this scene, I was trying to point out that Jaeger's Paideia is inconsistent with the Paideia, the "chastisement" to which Isaiah refers. ====================== As for free will, or voluntary action, we must define what we mean if we wish to avoid going around in circles. I define a voluntary action as an action which may be done pursuant to or in conformity with a verbal prescription. If I say explicitly or implicitly, "I will take the bus to Harvard Square," and thereupon take the bus to Harvard Square I do so pursuant to "free will." Since animals cannot speak, at least not to me, I am unable to determine whether or not they act voluntarily. When I drive an automobile, I make every effort to keep the car on the road. If by mistake I hit a tree, it's not because I "want" to hit a tree. It's not an expression of "freedom of the will." The logic breaks down because so much of my activity proceeds inadvertently and unconsciously. I do many things from habit, without being aware of my action. I do not believe that an action of which I am unaware can be done according to "free will." Can you give a definition of what you mean by "free will"? Jochen